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Hi Kristen,
I really felt for you when i listened to last night's podcast about Anders and Kindergarten. It is always VERY difficult to hear that you child has challenges of any kind and I think it's completely natural to feel sad, anxious, disappointed, etc. It's just that our kids are perfect to us, and to feel that they might have to go through any difficulty is heartbreaking. That said, some thoughts (and I apologize for the length, but I have strong feelings about this issue!):
-I wouldn't worry too much about the "future problems forever" scenario. Even if you decided to push Anders through to first grade and he needed support services, support services are not inherently a bad thing. They help each child to experience success at the level for which he or she is ready.
-Also, with all due respect to his teacher, I think it is impossible to say at age 5 that he will always need support. Kids who need help often do blossom later. My twins were classified as learning disabled in 2nd grade, basically because they had a kindergarten reading level then. For what it's worth, their IQs were almost crazy high. They are now in 7th grade and they read fantastically. They still get some support services (basically organization skills), but they are also happy, social, fun, nice, smart--all those good things we hope for in our kids. I spent many, many days and nights obsessing and torturing myself over their academic life, and in the end, they are who they are. So try not to worry too much!
-Another thing--just think, in ten years you'll be worrying about bigger problems, like drivers' licenses and teen drinking!
Also, as for Tommy's behavior issues, please tell Erin I have one for the record books: when one of my twins was in kindergarten, the teacher called my in to tell me that my son had been peeing on the roll of toilet paper in the bathroom! It had been happening day after day so they had to do a sting operation where they checked the t.p. after every kid went in, and just my luck, it was my kid. The experienced teacher and principal both said they had never seen this one before!! How special for me. But at 13 years old my son now asks, "what was i thinking then??!" and is able to follow most,...well, a lot, of the rules at school. There is hope!!!

Posted by: osmp | February 11, 2008 03:25 PM

Kristin,
I feel for you about Anders. My son is an old kindergarten student (9/25/01 birthdate) and I WISH he could have another year to "cook" in kindergarten. In my opinion he needs it but because of his age he will get scooted off to first grade because of his age and they need the spot in kindergarten for another student next year.

AND, my 96 year-old grandmother TO THIS DAY says she wishes she had held my DAD back a year at kindergarten time (also a September birth day - the same day as my son as a matter of fact). My grandfather was a life long educator - eventually being a principal for decades before retirement. My dad went on to get his PhD and work for NASA! No lifetime of help needed there.

I think as parents we always worry, it's just in our nature. Take a deep breath - all will be fine!

Posted by: rhiannonsmum | February 12, 2008 08:54 PM

I've got a comment on redshirting from the other side of the coin. I was considered "gifted" as a child. This is something that has been a mixed blessing my whole life.

Due to my performance on academic tests and a 174 IQ evaluation they told my parents that I was ready to move from kindergarden (which I started early as a september baby 1 day before cut off) to 2nd grade. From that point on I was always the "baby". I continued to shine academically but fail socially. I did jump another grade and ended up graduating at 16.

I had so many dicipline problems I believe I gave both my parents every one of their grey hairs.

I'm now 31 and I really believe I finally "caught up" socially at the age of 27. Starting college at 16 was a bad idea and I ended up leaving school and having to return when I was 24 and really ready.

I would never even think about moving my children (Ages 1 and 3) ahead. School is much more than an academic tool. It prepares you for the interactions as an adult in life and career. If your child is ahead academically you can as a parent add things to keep them mentally stimulated but there is nothing you can do as a parent to help socially when they are an outcast due to lack of maturity.

Just my two cents.

Alison in NJ

Posted by: Alison L | February 13, 2008 01:01 PM

As the mother of a kindergarten student as well, I was so very into the discussion about both your boys in this episode. My daughter is also a July birthday, making her a very young one in her class. While she could read before kindergarten (not from any specific effort on my part, her love of books and just getting it), I think she struggles all the time in the emotional realm. She needs some extra academic attention because she's often bored, but she also needs the kid glove treatment with her feelings. I guess the bottom line is, we each have to take what we think is best for our kid and do it. My best wishes for both Anders and Tommy, that they not get labeled into any specific roles.

More importantly, I think, is the pressure our society has grown to put on our children. The things they are asked to achieve at this age and stage are huge by comparison to what we did as children. Kids still need time to be kids. Remember when kindergarten was time to learn to be with other kids and away from our parents? While I know that many of our kids are in preschool and daycare programs because of their parents working (and to give us stay at home moms a little break too), I think in many ways the world has lost sight of letting kids be kids.

Posted by: KbRadcliffe | February 13, 2008 03:04 PM

I just got done listening to your latest episode and I feel that I need to share my story with you, because my parent were in a similar situation when I was in kidengarten. My birthday is in August so I really was the baby of my grade. Just like Anders I was in a special reading group in kindergarten and just like you and Steve, my parents were told that it was more beneficial to have me repeat Kindegarten. Like my Kindegarten teacher I am sure Anders teacher meant well in all that she said to you but I can tell you from experience that allowing your son to move up to the first grade next year does not mean that he will be acedemically behind or have to play catch up or even troubled, for the rest of his acedemic years. My parents made the decision to let me move up to the first grade against the teachers reccomendations and while yes I did have to have some help in first grade I did just fine From second grade thru the twelveth grade. In fact the reading help I go in kindergarten and fisrt grade laid the ground work for me becoming the most advanced reader in my school. by fourth grade I was reading and comprehending things at college level. I had to share my story with you so that you can see that not all summer babies who move ahead against teacher reccomendation get lost or become troubled.

Posted by: Mother Cardinal 2 | February 14, 2008 01:45 AM

Kristen,

I know you and your husband are disappointed about the Kindergarten news. I have twin boys, with August birthdays, who are now 8 years old and in the 2nd grade. We had to make the same decision and did hold them back. We decided before they started Kindergarten so they did Kindergarten at their preschool, then a second year of Kinder in public school. I do not regret our decision and believe it was the best choice we could make. The second year of Kindergarten was so much less painful for my boys than the first year. We had the advantage ahead of time of knowing they would repeat so we did not sweat the slow writing & reading progress the first round. By the second round, they were right on track. I do have some advice for you, based on my experience.
1. Anders may not be nearly as upset as you are especially if you explain this well. I remember a lecture we attended at our boys preschool, which was on the topic of the pressure of getting in to the right private schools. The psychologist said don’t let your disappointment or anxiety bleed over to your kids. I think although it pertained to a different situation, it applies here. Don’t present this as “big news” or “serious news”. Try your best to be upbeat.
2. How we talked about this with my boys, which worked well for us is this: We explained that Kindergarten is an introduction to school. In Kindergarten you spend part of your day learning new things and part of your day playing. Once you get to First Grade, you spend more time on the learning and less time on the playing. In First Grade the teacher will expect you to sit at your desk more and do your school work. You don’t get as much time at free centers (or whatever they call them at your school). First Grade can still fun but it is more learning fun and less play fun. Your Daddy and I have talked about this and decided that since you are younger than most of your classmates, and that many of them had an extra year to play in preschool, we wanted to give you the opportunity to have an extra year in Kindergarten, where you get more play time.
3. If Anders is concerned about not staying with his friends remind him that even if you went to First grade many of his current K friends will be in different classes. He will still see his friends at school or play dates(?).
4. One other thought you might mention is that this means he will get to spend an extra year with Mommy & Daddy before he leaves for college. This was a big point for my boys since they both claim they will never leave me and I will need to go to college with them.
I know this seems big now, but if you have him repeat Kindergarten, by the time he is in second grade this will be ancient history.

Best of luck with your decision and implementation. Keep us posted!

Posted by: Jane | February 14, 2008 03:15 PM

Thank you so much for your discussion about redshirting. My second oldest turns 5 this August and my husband and I have been going back and forth about whether or not we'll put him in kindergarten this year or next. After listening to this podcast, I'm leaning towards next year. I'm also going to make sure my husband has a listen to it. Thanks again!

Posted by: Fold My Laundry Please | February 15, 2008 12:20 PM

I really enjoyed this podcast even though we had to make the reverse decision for our October birthday younger son (Sept. 30th cutoff date in our school district). His kindergarten teacher asked if he could spend part of his day in a first grade class since he was bored with the kindergarten material. We agreed, and he finished both grades that year. He's in the fourth grade now, and we do see signs of emotional immaturity, compared to other kids in his class. He isn't having trouble with the material, though, and we're pretty sure we've made the right decision for him.

I had to laugh at Erin's statement about Tommy only being in kindergarten and "already" getting in lots of trouble. Trouble for our older son started much younger than kindergarten (I think it was actually when he was 3 and started pushing the other kids around at daycare), and continued until through 4th grade. We finally got an ADHD diagnosis and medication for him after 4th grade, and it has made all the difference in his classroom behavior! We also find that for him, a VERY structured teacher works best.

Thanks again for a great podcast!

Posted by: SandiH | February 15, 2008 07:15 PM

Kristen,

I know I am late posting but I have not caught up with my podcasts and felt it necessary to post this.

As a first grade teacher, this hit home for me. Every year I have to have conversations like the one you had with your son's teacher. I was so proud of you for not being one of the parents to scoff and say that there is no way your son will repeat. You made the comment that you were surprised that the teacher told you that it was your decision. Part of that is because you live here in Massachusetts. Kindergarten here is not mandatory. So this allows parents to make the decision themselves. We as educators can request it but it makes the decision yours. As an educator, I always remind parents that it is much easier socially and academically for a child to repeat in Kindergarten/1st grade than later on in their school career. Every day I work with students that are struggling to learn to read, some will stay back and become shining stars in first grade. They later continue this path. Some students repeat and will still have difficulty academically, but those students generally will have an IEP. Others continue on to the next grade academically behind their peers and quickly catch up with help from parents or a tutor at home (throughout the summer and the school year). Others continue on and struggle throughout their whole lives. Still other students, need that extra year due to just plain immaturity. You need to take into account many different things, when you make this decision. Stay in contact with the teacher, not only at parent/teacher conferences. You should be able to ask for a meeting regarding your son's progress. See if there are any activities or academic work you can do at home to help him along. Also, we are only in March. Anders does have some time to grow and mature. You may want to wait to make this decision until the beginning of June.

I also suggest that if you do decide to keep Anders in Kindergarten for one more year, wait to tell him until the year is over. Many times parents tell students right away and they discuss it it school. It becomes a topic of conversation in the classroom and is sometimes hard for the child who will be staying. Other times the student who will be repeating thinks the rest of the year is a joke so they can fool around and this makes it hard for them to work at their own pace academically. I hope this helps some. Thanks,
Danielle Jones

Posted by: gbear5555 | March 9, 2008 03:46 PM

Kristen,

I know I am late posting but I have not caught up with my podcasts and felt it necessary to post this.

As a first grade teacher, this hit home for me. Every year I have to have conversations like the one you had with your son's teacher. I was so proud of you for not being one of the parents to scoff and say that there is no way your son will repeat. You made the comment that you were surprised that the teacher told you that it was your decision. Part of that is because you live here in Massachusetts. Kindergarten here is not mandatory. So this allows parents to make the decision themselves. We as educators can request it but it makes the decision yours. As an educator, I always remind parents that it is much easier socially and academically for a child to repeat in Kindergarten/1st grade than later on in their school career. Every day I work with students that are struggling to learn to read, some will stay back and become shining stars in first grade. They later continue this path. Some students repeat and will still have difficulty academically, but those students generally will have an IEP. Others continue on to the next grade academically behind their peers and quickly catch up with help from parents or a tutor at home (throughout the summer and the school year). Others continue on and struggle throughout their whole lives. Still other students, need that extra year due to just plain immaturity. You need to take into account many different things, when you make this decision. Stay in contact with the teacher, not only at parent/teacher conferences. You should be able to ask for a meeting regarding your son's progress. See if there are any activities or academic work you can do at home to help him along. Also, we are only in March. Anders does have some time to grow and mature. You may want to wait to make this decision until the beginning of June.

I also suggest that if you do decide to keep Anders in Kindergarten for one more year, wait to tell him until the year is over. Many times parents tell students right away and they discuss it it school. It becomes a topic of conversation in the classroom and is sometimes hard for the child who will be staying. Other times the student who will be repeating thinks the rest of the year is a joke so they can fool around and this makes it hard for them to work at their own pace academically. I hope this helps some. Thanks,
Danielle Jones

Posted by: gbear5555 | March 9, 2008 03:52 PM

Hi Kristin,
The kindergarten show was the first that I listened to as a new subscriber to the podcast.
I have my own set of biases as a mom of a July baby, a teacher (taught first for 7 years and have been teaching 3rd for 4 now) and a retained child myself. I HATE the term held back. Personally, I think that the gift of extra time was one of the best gifts that my parents have given me. I already know that my July baby will be starting kindergarten when she is 6. Also, no one that has retained their child on my recommendation has regretted it. The hard part of the whole thing is that it is a decision that you can't take back. Above all else, you have to do what is in your heart. Whatever approach you choose, you have to wholeheartedly believe in or it will not work for your family. The way that I have explained it to people is this; it is the difference between your child in the role of a leader and helper and always playing catch up. Time is a precious gift.

Best of luck, Heather

Posted by: hlaro | March 17, 2008 08:07 PM